The leader of the Vatican II sect in L.A., “Cardinal” Roger Mahony, shows us why the “Church” of John Paul II is not the Catholic Church

Heresy of the Week, Week of 3/12/04
By Bro. Michael Dimond and Bro. Peter Dimond
For more see: Heresies of the Week of John Paul II’s Hierarchy and Members

On Friday, February 20, 2004, Churchwerks.com hosted an online chat session with “Cardinal” Roger Mahony that was moderated by Beliefnet.com.

Leonel M asks: Mel Gibson's upcoming movie "The Passion of the Christ" has had more than its share of headlines for the last year or more. But what is the relationship of Gibson's church near Malibu to the Archdiocese of Los Angeles? Is it part of a schismatic group?

Cardinal Mahony: I know nothing about the Church in Malibu. It is certainly not in communion with the Universal Catholic Church nor the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. I have never met Mr. Gibson, and he does not participate in any parish of this Archdiocese. He, apparently, has chosen to live apart from the communion of the Catholic Church…

Moderator: We have several related questions about Mel Gibson; I'll try to summarize them. Many people have the impression that Mel Gibson is -- for lack of a better word -- a "regular" Catholic. Could you briefly explain the Catholic traditionalist movement?

Cardinal Mahony: Actually, there is no such thing as the "Catholic traditionalist, modernist, movement." Either one is in full communion with the Catholic Church, in unity with the Successor of Peter, or not. One cannot pick and choose which Pope to follow, especially dead ones, or which teaching to follow -- and then set aside the rest. Such people may be very nice people, but that doesn't make them "Catholic" in the true sense…

Moderator: So if Mel Gibson does not accept the Church's teachings as outlined in Vatican II documents, he's "not Catholic in the true sense"?

Cardinal Mahony: The Sixteen Documents of the Second Vatican Council constitute the accurate, authentic teaching of the Church. Those teachings are now contained in the Catechism of the Church. If one chooses to set aside any of those, then they choose to separate themselves from the unity of the Church. Keep in mind that the first temptation of Adam and Eve was precisely this: Satan told them, "you will be like gods, choosing good and evil.”…

Runecaster95 asks: Is it acceptable for Catholics to participate in acts of devotion such as Zen meditation and Hindu chanting, providing the emphasis remains on Christ?

Cardinal Mahony: Any form of prayer and meditation that helps us deepen our life in Jesus Christ is a positive. We might call the same type of prayer "centering prayer," or "Christian mantra."

User barronista asks; "Is that actually a winged serpent on the door of the new Los Angeles Cathedral? If so what significance does that have for Catholics? And if it isn't a winged serpent, what is it?”

Cardinal Mahony: Actually, there are many signs and symbols on the [Cathedral’s] Great Bronze Doors. There are 40 different religious symbols, all of them portraying God's presence or power in a variety of faith traditions. Robert Graham's book in the [Cathedral] gift shop describes each in its totality.

Jane M. asks: Who do you think goes to heaven? Do you think people of other religions will be there? Do people who haven't accepted Christ as their savior go to heaven when they die?

Cardinal Mahony: As the Second Vatican Council teaches us, it is the Church's belief that everyone goes to heaven "through the salvific merits of Jesus Christ." Therefore, if they belong to another faith community, we believe that it is still the merits of Jesus' Paschal Mystery that enables them to reach the Kingdom of God.  Keep in mind that each of us "chooses" our final destiny, and God continually calls to us to return home.

Comment: 1) “Cardinal” Mahony recently presided over a “Mass” in his L.A. Cathedral which included lion dances, lantern dances [whatever that is], and two 50-foot dragons representing the god of rainfall. 

The “Cardinal Archbishop” of Los Angeles, Roger Mahony, was in attendance, while “the program handed out before the Mass dedicated the first page to justifying the presence of the dragon and lion dances. The dragon, according to the program, is a legendary animal in Chinese mythology, signifying power, prosperity, fertility, majesty, and regal dignity. Believed to be the governing god of rainfall, and China being traditionally an agricultural country, the ‘veneration to the dragon,’ read the program, ‘slowly evolved as a cult.’" Those who consider Antipope John Paul II as the Pope must recognize Roger Mahony as the leader of the “Catholic Church” in Los Angeles. But such an idea is obviously insane.

Dragon ‘Mass’ inside the LA Cathedral

Mahony is easily one of the most notorious apostates in the Novus Ordo sect, if not the worst one in America.  Notice that when he was asked in the interview whether it is necessary to accept Christ to be saved he did not say yes.  He said that Vatican II teaches that everyone goes to heaven, even those of different faiths, by Christ, which means that one does not have to accept Christ to be saved.  This is total heresy, of course.  In fact, during one meeting that Mahony held with Jewish Rabbis, he stressed that the Church had “adopted an understanding of Judaism in which there is not the slightest hint of contempt, and not an iota of conversionist agenda.”  Rather than praying for Jews to convert to Catholicism, Mahony said, the Church now calls for Catholics to pray that Jews remain faithful to their own religion. (Los Angeles Daily News, Dec. 25, 1998, “Healing Rifts,” by Deborah Sullivan). 

However, as bad as this is, those who hold that John Paul II is the Pope (and therefore a Catholic) must hold that Mahony is a Catholic as well, and that he is the leader and head of the Catholic Church in Los Angeles – the person with whom all Catholics in that area must hold communion.  Thus, what Mahony says above in his interview, about how one is either in union with the Bishops of the Catholic Church or he is not in communion with the Catholic Church, is actually theologically correct. 

St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Trallians, (A.D. 110): “He that is within the sanctuary is pure; but he that is outside the sanctuary is not pure.  In other words, anyone who acts without the bishop and the presbytery and the deacons does not have a clean conscience.” (Jurgens, F.O.F, Vol. 1:50)

St. Jerome, Commentaries on the Epistle to Titus, (A.D. 386): “Between heresy and schism there is a distinction made, that heresy involves perverse doctrine, while schism separates one from the Church on account of disagreement with the Bishop. (Jurgens, F.O.F, Vol. 2:1371a)

These statements about union with the Bishop must be understood with certain proper theological distinctions.  If there were a true Catholic Bishop today who possessed ordinary jurisdiction, then a Catholic could disagree with him on certain matters.  But the point and meaning of the above quotations from the Fathers, and the point of the apostate Mahony in the interview, is that no Catholic can be separated from spiritual communion with the legitimate Bishop (they must have the same faith and government), because there is a union of faith and government in the Church of Christ.

Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi (# 22): “As therefore in the true Christian community there is only one Body, one Spirit, one Lord, and one Baptism, so there can be only one faith.  And therefore if a man refuse to hear the Church let him be considered – so the Lord commands – as a heathen and a publican.  It follows that those who are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor can they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit.”

Thus, if John Paul II is the Pope, one must hold communion in faith with his apostate Bishops, such as “Cardinal” Roger Mahony.  But this is obviously absurd, and it shows us why the position of “traditionalists” who still think John Paul II is the Pope is untenable.  If they affirm communion with John Paul II’s Bishops, such as Mahony, they are denying the faith; and if they deny communion with them (while still accepting Antipope John Paul II as the Pope) they are adhering to a schismatic position which separates them from the communion of the hierarchy they recognize. The only legitimate Catholic position is to acknowledge that heretics like Mahony and John Paul II are not members of the Catholic Church, but are outside of it, and therefore they hold no authority as Bishop or “Pope” (they lose their offices completely).

St. Robert Bellarmine, De Romano Pontifice, lib. II, cap. 30:"Finally, the Holy Fathers teach unanimously not only that heretics are outside of the Church, but also that they are "ipso facto" deprived of all ecclesiastical jurisdiction and dignity.”

St. Robert Bellarmine, De Romano Pontifice, II, 30:
"A pope who is a manifest heretic automatically (per se) ceases to be pope and head, just as he ceases automatically to be a Christian and a member of the Church. Wherefore, he can be judged and punished by the Church. This is the teaching of all the ancient Fathers who teach that manifest heretics immediately lose all jurisdiction."

2) It is also very interesting to note that Roger Mahony tells us that those who don’t accept the apostate and heretical documents of Vatican II are not in the unity of the Catholic Church.  This is the answer of basically every Novus Ordo Bishop or apologist, simply because the “Church” of John Paul II officially and universally accepts the apostate documents of Vatican II as the authoritative teaching of the Church.  In L’Osservatore Romano (the official Vatican newspaper) of two weeks ago (Feb. 25, 2004, p. 6/7) there is a huge headline stating: “Council [Vatican II] clearly makes ecumenism binding as the work of the Spirit.”  Those in communion with John Paul II must accept Vatican II or they are separating themselves from communion with their “Church” and they are actually denying Papal Infallibility (as proven in the article, Was Vatican II Infallible?) 

3)  Notice that when the apostate Mahony was asked whether the symbol on his Cathedral was a winged serpent he did not answer the question.  This is because it is a winged serpent.

For more see: Heresies of the Week of John Paul II’s Hierarchy and Members