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August 2006

Are the Thuc Line Bishops Valid?


August 31, 2006

Brother Dimond: Thank you for being on the program Coast to Coast am. You are steadfast in your defense of the true catholic church. I am currently attending a Triditine Mass at a church in Orlando whose priest is ordained by a "Thuc Line Bishop". Do you consider the 'Thuc line' ordinations valid? Am I attending a legitimate Mass? Prayerfully awaiting your reply. Jack Bryant, Orlando, Florida.

MHFM

Yes, the Thuc line is valid. The priests ordained in the traditional rite of ordination by Thuc bishops must be considered validly ordained. There are no legitimate grounds upon which to question the validity. However, since almost all of even the traditionalist priests hold some views not consistent with Catholic teaching – such as that non-Catholics can be saved, etc. – you almost certainly cannot support the priest, though you could receive the sacraments from him without supporting him, provided he is not imposing or notorious about his heresy. ------------- Fall 2004

Your points are well taken.  Thanks for your helpful independent views.  Re my question about the validity of Abp Thuc consecrations:  What is your informed view?  Is Bishop [x] validly consecrated since he is in succession from Abp Thuc?  Thanks for your refreshing insights!  -Paul M.
MHFM:
Paul, despite the claims of some “traditionalists,” especially the SSPV supporters, the fact is that the validity of the Thuc-line cannot be questioned.  If it can be questioned, then any Episcopal Consecration or Ordination performed in the Traditional Rite can be questioned.  We certainly have no bias in this matter, since we have no affiliation with the Thuc-line whatsoever.  The facts are the facts.  The Ordinations and Consecrations performed in the Traditional Rite by Archbishop Thuc and those whom he Consecrated must be considered valid, because when the Traditional Rite is observed the intention is presumed valid, as Pope Leo XIII says in Apostolicae Curae.  Further, there is no evidence that Bishop Thuc did not possess his mental faculties at the time of these Consecrations, even if some of his decisions were wacky.  We know someone who knew and spent time with Bishop Thuc in New York just before his death, and he said that he was very lucid.

“You called him a MORON. Is this Catholic behavior?”


August 31, 2006

Brother Dimond: Thank you for being on the program Coast to Coast am. You are steadfast in your defense of the true catholic church. I am currently attending a Triditine Mass at a church in Orlando whose priest is ordained by a "Thuc Line Bishop". Do you consider the 'Thuc line' ordinations valid? Am I attending a legitimate Mass? Prayerfully awaiting your reply. Jack Bryant, Orlando, Florida.

MHFM

A number of people complained about calling the heretic JC a moron (fool). All who complained about this are very mistaken. That particular heretic, who called in on a national radio program to level false accusations and scandalize millions, absolutely deserved to be called a moron – especially after accusing someone else of being a moron. Those who demonstrate a profound level of bad will or hypocrisy can certainly – and sometimes should – be denounced as fools. Both St. Peter Damian and St. Alphonsus call those who commit sins of impurity “fools.”

St. Alphonsus on the damnation of the impure: "Continue, O fool, says St. Peter Damian (speaking to the unchaste), continue to gratify the flesh; for the day will come in which thy impurities will become as pitch in thy entrails, to increase and aggravate the torments of the flame which will burn thee in hell: 'The day will come, yea rather the night, when thy lust shall be turned into pitch, to feed in thy bowels the everlasting fire." (Preparation for Death, abridged version, p. 117)
Our Lord also says call no man “Father,” but (as Catholics know) that doesn’t mean that we can never call someone “Father.” What Our Lord condemns in Matthew 5:22 is denouncing someone as a fool solely to insult his intelligence: For instance, someone who is trying to understand something and you denounce him as a fool. That is truly a despicable sin and a tremendous violation of charity. But a public heretic who demonstrates profound bad will and accuses others of being fools (morons), and who wants to attack the true religion in an outrageous fashion on national radio, has certainly become a fool (not because of some natural defect of intelligence on his part) but solely because of his ill will. Therefore, he needs to be told that “moron” is exactly what he is. [A “moron,” by the way, is precisely “a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment” (www.dictionary.com). I think we can agree that applies to JC.] This is why Sacred Scripture says that those who don’t believe in God (i.e. who demonstrate profound bad will) are fools:
Psalm 13:1- “The fool hath said in his heart: There is no God…”
This is why Sacred Scripture, speaking of the perverse, says:
Ecclesiastes 1:15- “The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite.”
That’s why the New Testament also refers to someone who demonstrates bad will in regard to his eternal salvation as a “fool.”
Luke 12:20- “But God said to him: Thou fool, this night do they require thy soul of thee: and whose shall those things be which thou hast provided?”
Calling someone a moron isn’t nearly as offensive or “insulting to his dignity” as calling someone “the first-born of Satan,” we think you would agree? Yet, the saints recognized that labeling certain heretics such things is not only permissible, but sometimes necessary.
St. Ireneaus, Against Heresies: “Once he [St. Polycarp] was met by Marcion, who said to him, ‘Do you recognize me?’ and Polycarp replied, ‘I recognize you as the firstborn of Satan!’” (Jurgens, Faith of the Early Fathers, Vol. 1:212)
The public heretic JC is a moron and a fool because he is a bad willed heretic – and since he is going to publicly accuse others of being such he needs to be told that he is actually such. What we don’t need today are spiritual wimps, who cry out every time the full “dignity” of antichrist heretics is not respected. Such people accomplish nothing for God. We don’t need people who are more concerned with making sure evil men are respected than that evil men are denounced. We need those who love the Lord and therefore hate evil.
Psalm 96:10- "You that love the Lord, hate evil..."

Which Tan Books are NOT Recommended?


August 30, 2006

Brother Dimond: Thank you for being on the program Coast to Coast am. You are steadfast in your defense of the true catholic church. I am currently attending a Triditine Mass at a church in Orlando whose priest is ordained by a "Thuc Line Bishop". Do you consider the 'Thuc line' ordinations valid? Am I attending a legitimate Mass? Prayerfully awaiting your reply. Jack Bryant, Orlando, Florida.

MHFM

They have much beneficial material; however, some of their books promote the heresy that souls can be saved without the Catholic Faith. This heretical idea was a big problem before Vatican II, as our material proves. As far as we know, Tan also sells a few books which promote the sinful birth control practice of NFP. But these are small in number, so it shouldn’t be a problem for strong Catholics who are convinced of the true positions.

“Where can I find a true church in London, England?”


August 29, 2006

Brother Dimond: Thank you for being on the program Coast to Coast am. You are steadfast in your defense of the true catholic church. I am currently attending a Triditine Mass at a church in Orlando whose priest is ordained by a "Thuc Line Bishop". Do you consider the 'Thuc line' ordinations valid? Am I attending a legitimate Mass? Prayerfully awaiting your reply. Jack Bryant, Orlando, Florida.

MHFM

Thanks for the e-mail. “Cardinal” Cormac Murphy O’Connor is a heretic. He is a leader in the post-Vatican II sect. He publicly endorses the heresies of Vatican II, such as false ecumenism, etc. He also accepts the New Mass. He is a validly ordained priest (having been ordained in 1956), but cannot be considered a valid bishop (having been ordained in 1977, after Paul VI’s new rite was instituted), nor a Catholic one.  We don’t have the specific locations of Masses in England, but we have given you the e-mail address of someone who does know where the traditional Mass is offered in England. Using those guidelines, people have to apply them to their specific options. These guidelines include, of course, the fact that no one can go to the New Mass – but only a traditional Rite. No one can financially support any priest or “bishop” professing communion with Antipope Benedict XVI and the Vatican II sect. And one should not even attend the traditional rite of a priest or bishop who is notorious or imposing about his heretical position. But if there is a valid priest celebrating a traditional rite who is not notorious or imposing about his heretical position then we believe you may go (you don’t have to), without supporting him.

Can a Catholic attend a college or university?


August 28, 2006

Brother Dimond: Thank you for being on the program Coast to Coast am. You are steadfast in your defense of the true catholic church. I am currently attending a Triditine Mass at a church in Orlando whose priest is ordained by a "Thuc Line Bishop". Do you consider the 'Thuc line' ordinations valid? Am I attending a legitimate Mass? Prayerfully awaiting your reply. Jack Bryant, Orlando, Florida.

MHFM

Thank you for your question. First, he shouldn’t bother reading Malachi Martin’s books. Malachi Martin mixed truth with error and misled many. He said that Buddhists could be saved without the Catholic Faith and that John Paul II never uttered a heresy. Second, our feelings about young men and women attending colleges and universities is this: normally speaking (there may be rare exceptions, of course) since the campuses of these colleges and universities are cesspools of iniquity – and living in the dorms surrounded by the pagans and non-Catholics who make mortal sin a way of life at such colleges and universities would be an almost-constant occasion of sin (with others constantly goading one to partake in such party-type activity) – it would be a tragic spiritual mistake for most young men and women to subject themselves to such a situation by living in the dorms at these colleges and universities.  Almost 100% of them would fail in such an environment and fall into mortal sin, no matter how much they protest that they wouldn’t. To preserve a person’s soul from such snares (and preserving the soul is the most important thing to be considered – Mt. 16:26), to attend such a college or university a person should either live at home and commute (that way he would be away from the mortally sinful party-lifestyle) or rent an apartment and live by himself so that he doesn’t have to live and constantly be around non-Catholics who are frequently committing mortal sins and/or encouraging him to do so (e.g. by inviting him to parties, etc.). “Catholic” Fordham University, since it’s Catholic in name only, would be considered just like any secular/pagan university. Hence, we believe one could attend provided that one doesn’t take religion classes or live amidst the sinful surroundings, but can be separate in some way by commuting or having one’s own place away from the others.

“I've listened to the program coast2coast”


August 27, 2006

Brother Dimond: Thank you for being on the program Coast to Coast am. You are steadfast in your defense of the true catholic church. I am currently attending a Triditine Mass at a church in Orlando whose priest is ordained by a "Thuc Line Bishop". Do you consider the 'Thuc line' ordinations valid? Am I attending a legitimate Mass? Prayerfully awaiting your reply. Jack Bryant, Orlando, Florida.

MHFM

Mark, that's great to hear.  Attached is a summary of the Catholic Catechism.  Also, near the bottom of our website there is a profession of Faith for converts from the Council of Trent.  You should read it and begin to familiarize yourself with it.  We would also recommend that you watch all the videos on our website.  Someone will be calling you with more information, and to answer your other questions.

Fascinating story from a reader about his experience at the Novus Ordo


August 27, 2006

Brother Dimond: Thank you for being on the program Coast to Coast am. You are steadfast in your defense of the true catholic church. I am currently attending a Triditine Mass at a church in Orlando whose priest is ordained by a "Thuc Line Bishop". Do you consider the 'Thuc line' ordinations valid? Am I attending a legitimate Mass? Prayerfully awaiting your reply. Jack Bryant, Orlando, Florida.

MHFM

Private revelation is always to be taken with a grain of salt. The teaching of the Church is our guide. But stories of private revelations that are perfectly consistent with the teaching of the Church can be interesting. This story is very interesting because it is perfectly in line with the teaching of the Catholic Church which shows that the New Mass cannot be valid since it has drastically altered the words of consecration.

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